“Oh, the unspeakable greatness of that exchange,—the Sinless One is condemned, and he who is guilty goes free; the Blessing bears the curse, and the cursed is brought into blessing; the Life dies, and the dead live; the Glory is whelmed in darkness, and he who knew nothing but confusion of face is clothed with glory.” Trailady

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A person God turned around many times.

Tuesday, September 12, 2006

Misrepresenting Christ with hate

He (or she) that doeth truth cometh to the light.

It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife: and some also of good will; the one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds; but the other of love.

But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

Their throat is an open sepulcre; with their tongues have they used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: their feet are swift to shed blood: destruction and misery are in all their ways: the way of peace have they not known: there is no fear of God before their eyes.

For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it...and a mouth speaking great things....Which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet....whose look was more stout than his fellows.

He shall magnify himself above all.

If ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

The Lord is in His holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before Him.

That every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Woe is me! For I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and trodden under foot of men.

Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

Be thou an example unto the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren; the elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

What glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? But if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called; because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow His steps; who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth: who, when He was reviled, reviled not again; when He suffered, threatened not; but committed Himself to Him that judgeth righteously: who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we being dead to sins should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Be ye angry, and sin not; let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil.

Wherefore my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

The tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity; so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on the fire of hell…Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be…Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? Let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Having a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter; choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season.

Yet now, if Thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not blot me, I pray Thee, out of Thy book which Thou hast written.

The Lord God hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: He wakeneth morning by morning, He wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.

Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man came not to destroy mens lives, but to save them.

And all bare Him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of His mouth.

Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into Thy lips: therefore God hath blessed Thee for ever.

When He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as He is pure.

Be ye holy; for I am holy.

All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and He does according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth:...Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth and His ways judgment: and those that walk in pride He is able to abase.


Blogger Orange_Cross said...

I just finished reading a translation of the Koran a few days ago. Have you ever considered reading it? I think its easily summarised: worship God, have faith that one and all will be judged by God and that God is merciful. It seemed to me that there was much repetition, including four explicit accountings of the conversatio between Moses and Pharoah here pharoah gave the signs of the rod turning into a snake and his white hand, it is referred to about four more times. The most common sentiment seems to be a warning and description of the punishment of hell for those without faith. A tangly point for one with the idea of Christ as son of God is the repeated admonition that God has no partners or sons according to the Koran. What do you think?

Also, the Ayatollah I mentioned in a previous post responded to my question, but he responded in arabic and I don't yet have a translation though I posted the arabic on my blog.

9/12/2006 9:22 PM  
Blogger David said...

Orange Cross, I have looked at the Koran, but not enough to say I have read it. As I recall, it did have a lot of repeated admonitions and promises to the obedient and faithful. I didn't know it had stories and conversations. I thought the Bible was different in that respect, for its many stories and conversations. What I remember of the Koran that stood out for me was the constant use of threats to keep us faithful. Love wasn't a virtue to strive for, nor was it demonstrated by the writer of the Koran. Alla was definitely heavy-handed, without reprieve. Elohim and Yahweh could be heavy-handed, but They also poured out Their heart to Their children, Israel and the whole world. Yahweh has tough love, Alla is just tough. Therefore we have the tough religion of Islam today.

Have I understood the Koran correctly? I'm glad you got a response from the Ayatollah. But, of course, he will not be defiled by contact with the English language, and Islam will prevail against the Christian filth they spread around the world.

I can't blame him for hating us. Look what we do in every country we enter. We rape and pillage. We get our money's worth out of the economies of the world. And we feel that that is our God-given right! I hate to say it, but one day it will all come caving in on us.

Also keep in mind that he has been raised in a very conservative culture, very repressive and oppressive. That's ingrained intto them all because they lived in that from day one. If I remember correctly, you wanted to reason with him away from the use of violence all the time. It will take a miracle. Reasoning will not work. The heart has to be touched. Without a broken heart, no one looks at life differently and changes. Anger is our natural inheritance, and angry we will be until God can make the necessary changes in our thoughts. But He is the only one who can do that.

Thanks for stopping by, Orange Cross. I hope to hear from you again.

9/13/2006 4:27 AM  
Blogger Trailady said...

Not sure where you are going with all these texts, are you building around a theme?

Interesting read none-the-less...

9/13/2006 12:12 PM  
Blogger David said...

Yes, Trailady. Its a very good study. Come again.

9/14/2006 12:43 AM  
Blogger Trailady said...

Hi David, I just re-read one of your comments on my blog. I now feel you intended this post for me. Still not sure what to make of it...

Brother, I am sorry if the thoughts I share hurt you- that is NEVER my intent. However, Christ did not only use parables to "gently & descretely" correct the religious elders and leaders of His day who misled the people into a works-oriented experience. You are correct in saying He was kind to Simon and used a parable, but He indeed confronted Pharisees and in the public. He passionately rebuked them and chased them out of the temple. He did not hold back, that's what the entire chapter of Matthew 23 is- the seven woes. He called them 'Brood of Vipers', 'Blind Guides', 'Hypocrites', 'Murderers','White-washed tombs'. He said, "You work hard and travel far to win converts, but make them twice the Son's of Hell as you are". He did not mince words, yet there was always a pleading in His voice. He loved these wayward men and would soon give His life for them- even though most would never accept the robe of righteousness He offered... amazing love...

David, can you not hear the pleading in my voice? I'm not angrily ranting or hating anyone, I am sorting things out and inviting others to REALLY connect with Christ, instead of just going through the motions of religion. Are we not of the same mindset in this regard??

9/14/2006 1:53 PM  
Blogger David said...

First of all, Trailady, I want you to know that I'm so glad you haven't written me off. Thanks for staying my friend.

Secondly, I was disturbed by your heaping of disgust on faulty men and women. It is too much. You are a dear sister to me, and I don't like to see this in you. It isn't compatible with the graces you've learned from the Holy Spirit. I do hear the words of a wounded and frustrated person, but I don't hear the tears that were in Jesus' voice. His wasn't the constant barrage. Matthew 23 was not the norm for Christ. It was His strange act and strange work. Nothing He did was for applause or flattery. Condemnation never disturbed His peace and burden. All that mattered to Him was to find a way into the hearts of those religious leaders and people. It was love that prevented Him from crossing the line into legalism and into the same spirit of religious bigotry and fanaticism.

I hope you can see what I mean.

9/14/2006 4:10 PM  
Blogger Trailady said...

David, I do not write people off. I may not always agree with everything, but I believe friendship goes beyond sharing all the same views.

As I have said before, I think in many ways we are both saying the same thing, but in different ways.

Yes, I have been frustrated, hurt and misunderstood. I have seen many people abused. God allowed this negative experience in ministry to happen in order to show me a huge weakness in my character and break me loose of placing all my trust & allegience in an institution.

Though I express concerns in my blog I am extremely tolerant. Really, I'm not disgusted with anyone. I am sorting out what real Christianity means & what it doesn't. I am passionate and admittedly, prone to over-analyze. At times God has to work very hard to get through to me, but I know He's got my attention...

9/14/2006 7:10 PM  
Blogger David said...

Trailady, I do believe in my heart that God has your attention. When I look around at our denomination and out in the world, I am stunned at the signs of Christ's soon coming. I see what you see in the "saints," but maybe in a little different way.

I have been reminded of my frame of mind just 6 or 7 years ago, how it was just like yours is now. But instead of having a blog to write on, I just wrote everything in a notebook. I was bitter and my words were cutting. I poured my heart out into paper because I had no ear to pour into. No one in my family could understand, not even my church family could.

But God, because of His wonderful graciousness, brought me out of that dismal slough of despond. I was attacking the church because it never helped me see the love of God. Sermons were about everything else in the world.

But God helped me get through that, so now I can see His love for not just me, but for everyone. No sermon could have convinced me like wrestling with it did.

I have great faith that you will also come out of your wrestling match beholding the grace and love of God emminently brighter than the sun. And basking in His love, you will love God's people and ease off the denunciations of them, especially on your public blogsite. Take care, sister.

I love you lots.

9/17/2006 5:25 PM  
Blogger Trailady said...

Hi David, I enjoy hearing your thoughts about your journey and what you have learned. :o)

9/18/2006 10:28 AM  
Blogger David said...

We're all traveling together. :)

9/18/2006 1:05 PM  
Blogger Orange_Cross said...

I thought I should clairfy one thing about the Ayatollah's response, I had the option of either an english or arabic response, I accidently requested an arabic response. I might email him for a translation if I can't find other help on my own soon.

Sounds like you have strong feelings about Islam. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but I think you should give the Qur'an a second chance, and read a translation all the way through, its pretty short so that should take some of the sting out of it. I think the God of the Qur'an is very similar to the God of the Old testament, and the New testament; they all seem to demand worship/love of themselves above all other things. The big difference I see is in the New testament where the message of Jesus is very pacifistic, whereas in the Old testament and Qur'an God allows violence and occasionally approves of it in the interest of the faithful.

9/22/2006 12:31 AM  
Blogger David said...

Orange Cross,

I can appreciate your honesty. I thought the same way about a violent God not too long ago, as you might have read in the comments above. But now I see that for God to maintain some sort of stability on this planet, He must punish law breakers. But that doesn't change His disposition of a father's love. He created us and doesn't want to hurt us. He isn't tyrannical or arbitrary. What He has done has been very reasonable and if one looks closely at what judgment could have been executed in the past because of licentious worship and child sacrifices, He has been very lenient and "erring" on the side of mercy. Justice isn't bad, only if it is not equally mixed with mercy. In fact mercy is bad, if not mixed with justice. I wish for you to think about that for a while.

I will look at the Qur'an if I see one. I want to see if it paints a picture of a God of mercy and justice. That would be interesting. But I sense that if it does, the Islamic Jihad and similar organizations don't see it or aren't wanting to look at that wonderful mixture.

If they don't want to put on new glasses, but stay in the revenge frame of mind, it may be because the West's flagrant disregard of moral values has left an irrepairable breach of trust in their minds, and I can't hardly blame them for their reaction of violence toward us.

Take care, Orange Cross.

9/22/2006 6:02 AM  

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