A Conversation With a Fellow Blogger
“I don’t understand love for God.” How much more of an honest question can one ask?
This is an exchange with two fellow bloggers, Orange Cross and Inheritor of Heaven. Orange Cross wrote some real intense questions concerning love for God. And Inheritor gave some very personal insights. It was good to read such sincere thoughts. If you want to read the complete comments, go to my previous post. My answers went like this:
Orange Cross, you asked me, “Do you feel like you’ve made a choice, are you compelled (to love God)?”
Yes, I have made a choice, but it was only a response to God’s move on me. Yes, I am compelled; my faith is somewhat on autopilot. But I must keep coming to God by faith so that my choice and the natural compulsion to have faith will remain. In other words, I am possessed by the love of God; I am a prisoner to His love. But I am always free to leave, as Inheritor also said. All I need do to leave is to neglect to come to Him by faith in prayer before His open Bible, and His presence will slowly fade away. Then I will be back to the same miserable existence I had before I got acquainted with Him, and actually it will be worse because my pride will make it harder to go back and admit my mistake in leaving Him. I can’t afford that.
God does talk to me. Sometimes convicting words jump out of the Bible that answer a request I had for Him. Sometimes, and this is happening more and more, wonderful thoughts flow through my mind that I feel I couldn’t manufacture. And I am thankful for them.
Orange Cross, you also wrote, “Everything good in your life comes from God,” which I believe you mean to say that everything good that has come to me is what I translate into God—as you later wrote, “because of God’s omnipresence and ‘manifestation’ in everything good and one’s natural response to love such things.”
I agree with Inheritor, that beside the good, a lot of difficulties have come my way, and it was those difficult times that forced me to hope in God, like the good times couldn’t have done for me. And when I responded, He opened my thoughts and let me now He was present. This was no mental gymnastics. It was unplanned and I was in great need of His help. I was in no mood to dream up anything. It was, “God, if you’re there, do something! I need your help! (please). And I’m so sorry for blowing it again.” It was a deep sorrowful moment with genuine tears. I am not the crying type of person, so I wouldn’t have gone through the emotional upheaval just to satisfy myself. I was trapped and looking to “Somebody up there.” He is always waiting for us to get to that point of desperation and dependence on Him before He can get through to us. Then we have real faith in Him. Before that it’s all imitation faith. It’s faith wannabe.
You also said, “You distill the message of God with the aid of inspiration or a reliance on what naturally appeals to you.”
Inspiration is a strong word, which I liken to a prophet. I’m not a prophet, just a regular person, but the Bible says that regular people are usually the only ones God can commune with. Maybe inspiration is a good word, I guess, but it is more than just feeling good about whatever appeals to me. By the way, you use some very precise words, as if you want to know exactly what faith in God is all about. I can appreciate that, since I also spent many years looking at all this business called religion, because I didn’t want to be fooled by something imaginary. I’m with you, all the way, friend. I’ve been there and have the souvenir. Keep on searching up this thing called faith, and before you know it, you will have it. You will have Him.
You wrote, “All of the inspiration that leads you to understand God seems to be involuntary, you cannot help but love God.”
Yes and no. To love and appreciate Him is involuntary once you’ve gotten to know Him and trust in Him. Trust and love spring from the same fountain. But I can choose to make other things have the highest priority, and then He will slowly be crowded out by all the “more important” things/people. I don’t want that. I’ve been enough places to know every place is all the same, once the magic has worn off, and I’ve met enough people to know they are all basically self-centered, even the best of them. I need to see pure unselfishness, and then I can go on living with myself. Then I can go on accepting people for what they are, weak and beautiful.
You said, “It seems to me that this realization or compulsion would not be exclusive to those familiar with certain books.”
This is true, many people come to know God without any knowledge of the Bible. There are many books floating around that profess to steer people toward peace and prosperity. Bear in mind, though, that even many supposed good books don’t shine out in exposing our faults and weaknesses and sinfulness, our utter need of more than just human help and wisdom. Therefore, those self-help books or books that give us pleasure won’t be useful tools for God, and in fact they limit Him, if not completely silence Him in their presence. The Bible is the best book for showing us sinners what we really are. And we won’t be happy until we see ourselves as we honestly are, selfish to the core. Its not until we see our true selves that we will need a powerful and forgiving God.
Your last statement was, “Is it necessary to follow a religious practice that does not seem good or appealing to one? Is there something about the not quite pleasant communication with God that trumps the whole natural inclination towards good?”
It’s not right to force oneself to be involved with something bad or unappealing or unpleasant, if something better is offered. But God is a person of truth and He cannot come close to His sinful human children without exposing our faultiness, which is good for us, but which may not feel very appealing, and which some people, out of ignorance, have called His exposure of their fault, “bad.”
I spent many years going to church but not hearing of God’s love. It was a horrible experience, but I continued going because I felt that sooner or later I would have faith in Him and in His love for me. Now and then I would hear the good word of His love. Eventually I left religion all together for 13 years. But all the time I was away and ignoring any thought of God, He kept putting reminders in my way, things that I couldn’t just dismiss without having to make a conscious choice, which also registers a memory in the memory banks. Eventually, He cornered me and I’ve been following up on Him ever since. It’s been real exciting too. The more I learn, the more I see He is a reality, and His coming in person is drawing nearer with signs showing up all the time. Yes! This is the time to get acquainted with that “Somebody up there,” before it gets real crazy in this old world, and then it gets too hard to seek Him and bump into Him in the night.
Orange Cross, I hope this helps in your quest. Please come again with more of your probing questions.
This is an exchange with two fellow bloggers, Orange Cross and Inheritor of Heaven. Orange Cross wrote some real intense questions concerning love for God. And Inheritor gave some very personal insights. It was good to read such sincere thoughts. If you want to read the complete comments, go to my previous post. My answers went like this:
Orange Cross, you asked me, “Do you feel like you’ve made a choice, are you compelled (to love God)?”
Yes, I have made a choice, but it was only a response to God’s move on me. Yes, I am compelled; my faith is somewhat on autopilot. But I must keep coming to God by faith so that my choice and the natural compulsion to have faith will remain. In other words, I am possessed by the love of God; I am a prisoner to His love. But I am always free to leave, as Inheritor also said. All I need do to leave is to neglect to come to Him by faith in prayer before His open Bible, and His presence will slowly fade away. Then I will be back to the same miserable existence I had before I got acquainted with Him, and actually it will be worse because my pride will make it harder to go back and admit my mistake in leaving Him. I can’t afford that.
God does talk to me. Sometimes convicting words jump out of the Bible that answer a request I had for Him. Sometimes, and this is happening more and more, wonderful thoughts flow through my mind that I feel I couldn’t manufacture. And I am thankful for them.
Orange Cross, you also wrote, “Everything good in your life comes from God,” which I believe you mean to say that everything good that has come to me is what I translate into God—as you later wrote, “because of God’s omnipresence and ‘manifestation’ in everything good and one’s natural response to love such things.”
I agree with Inheritor, that beside the good, a lot of difficulties have come my way, and it was those difficult times that forced me to hope in God, like the good times couldn’t have done for me. And when I responded, He opened my thoughts and let me now He was present. This was no mental gymnastics. It was unplanned and I was in great need of His help. I was in no mood to dream up anything. It was, “God, if you’re there, do something! I need your help! (please). And I’m so sorry for blowing it again.” It was a deep sorrowful moment with genuine tears. I am not the crying type of person, so I wouldn’t have gone through the emotional upheaval just to satisfy myself. I was trapped and looking to “Somebody up there.” He is always waiting for us to get to that point of desperation and dependence on Him before He can get through to us. Then we have real faith in Him. Before that it’s all imitation faith. It’s faith wannabe.
You also said, “You distill the message of God with the aid of inspiration or a reliance on what naturally appeals to you.”
Inspiration is a strong word, which I liken to a prophet. I’m not a prophet, just a regular person, but the Bible says that regular people are usually the only ones God can commune with. Maybe inspiration is a good word, I guess, but it is more than just feeling good about whatever appeals to me. By the way, you use some very precise words, as if you want to know exactly what faith in God is all about. I can appreciate that, since I also spent many years looking at all this business called religion, because I didn’t want to be fooled by something imaginary. I’m with you, all the way, friend. I’ve been there and have the souvenir. Keep on searching up this thing called faith, and before you know it, you will have it. You will have Him.
You wrote, “All of the inspiration that leads you to understand God seems to be involuntary, you cannot help but love God.”
Yes and no. To love and appreciate Him is involuntary once you’ve gotten to know Him and trust in Him. Trust and love spring from the same fountain. But I can choose to make other things have the highest priority, and then He will slowly be crowded out by all the “more important” things/people. I don’t want that. I’ve been enough places to know every place is all the same, once the magic has worn off, and I’ve met enough people to know they are all basically self-centered, even the best of them. I need to see pure unselfishness, and then I can go on living with myself. Then I can go on accepting people for what they are, weak and beautiful.
You said, “It seems to me that this realization or compulsion would not be exclusive to those familiar with certain books.”
This is true, many people come to know God without any knowledge of the Bible. There are many books floating around that profess to steer people toward peace and prosperity. Bear in mind, though, that even many supposed good books don’t shine out in exposing our faults and weaknesses and sinfulness, our utter need of more than just human help and wisdom. Therefore, those self-help books or books that give us pleasure won’t be useful tools for God, and in fact they limit Him, if not completely silence Him in their presence. The Bible is the best book for showing us sinners what we really are. And we won’t be happy until we see ourselves as we honestly are, selfish to the core. Its not until we see our true selves that we will need a powerful and forgiving God.
Your last statement was, “Is it necessary to follow a religious practice that does not seem good or appealing to one? Is there something about the not quite pleasant communication with God that trumps the whole natural inclination towards good?”
It’s not right to force oneself to be involved with something bad or unappealing or unpleasant, if something better is offered. But God is a person of truth and He cannot come close to His sinful human children without exposing our faultiness, which is good for us, but which may not feel very appealing, and which some people, out of ignorance, have called His exposure of their fault, “bad.”
I spent many years going to church but not hearing of God’s love. It was a horrible experience, but I continued going because I felt that sooner or later I would have faith in Him and in His love for me. Now and then I would hear the good word of His love. Eventually I left religion all together for 13 years. But all the time I was away and ignoring any thought of God, He kept putting reminders in my way, things that I couldn’t just dismiss without having to make a conscious choice, which also registers a memory in the memory banks. Eventually, He cornered me and I’ve been following up on Him ever since. It’s been real exciting too. The more I learn, the more I see He is a reality, and His coming in person is drawing nearer with signs showing up all the time. Yes! This is the time to get acquainted with that “Somebody up there,” before it gets real crazy in this old world, and then it gets too hard to seek Him and bump into Him in the night.
Orange Cross, I hope this helps in your quest. Please come again with more of your probing questions.
posted by David | 4:06 PM
3 Comments:
Orange Cross, that sounds very interesting. We shouldn't be afraid to question the intentions of powerful men. But, be aware that we press our point, it can be dangerous.
From what I've seen in the Hezbollah movement, justice demands action, and they see America and the west as the cause of the moral decline in the world. The west is a cancer that must be destroyed. There's no doubt in my mind that we are a cancer.
The Bible says that there is a time for peace and a time for war.
I believe God plans to destroy sin before He comes, but the big difference between Him and us is He has much mercy and forbearance, waiting to move on men as they realize that the sinful life is a dead-end street. God is gracious and always mingles mercy with justice. Man rarely has that grace, neither in the west nor the east. Man is quick to destroy indescrimanently, and sort it all out later.
God is tortured each day by what goes on here, in the east and west; it causes Him the utmost pain each day. When Jesus died on the cross, He was expressing the effect sin had had on His Father from the very beginning. At the cross God took justice on sin by dispensing it, not on us who deserve it, but on His own beloved Son. He effectively executed justice on Himself. And all who will look at this and see how He provided for our protection from eternal damnation will be drawn to a love and a grace that is never fully comprehensible.
His patience is amazing because of His love for us. The Bible says that He delays His coming because He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I don't know if Ayatollah Fadlallah will ever learn grace. And until then, hate which, like you said, "hints at hell," will continue to create vengefulness and every other evil.
Thanks for your reply, and I will look for the response from the Ayatollah. Take care, Orange Cross.
I've actually started a new journal titled "His Words to Me." I keep it on my nightstand. I want to record the times that God has answered directly my prayers and helped me.'
It definitely helps you to be aware that God does love us, and is very interested in a loving relationship.
That's a good idea, Sharon. Our best thoughts happen when there is no disturbances, and I believe the Holy Spirit gets through to us best during that time too. I'm anxious to hear some more of your good thoughts.
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