TruthInvestigate

“Oh, the unspeakable greatness of that exchange,—the Sinless One is condemned, and he who is guilty goes free; the Blessing bears the curse, and the cursed is brought into blessing; the Life dies, and the dead live; the Glory is whelmed in darkness, and he who knew nothing but confusion of face is clothed with glory.” Trailady

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A person God turned around many times.

Monday, April 28, 2014

Peter and me

“And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.” (Mark 9:5,6).

Simon Peter had a flaw: He was a fool. I am Peter. Peter misspoke; and I misspeak. Simon had to be corrected; so do I, but not often enough. The voice of the Father sent Peter into prostration. God wasn’t being mean or railing on the unwise creature, but He was displeased with the rude interruption to this only respite for His Son.

And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, He took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.”  (Lk. 9:28).

“These words spake Jesus, and lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify Thy Son, that Thy Son also may glorify Thee… And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.” (John 17:1,5).

It had been over 30 years since Michael said in the courts of heaven, “Sacrifice and offering Thou wouldest not, but a body hast Thou prepared Me.” (Heb. 10:5). Now, Father and Son reunited in an embrace broken by Christ’s incarnation, which had been a long trial for Them both. It had felt like an eternity to Them, for, “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years.” (2Pet. 3:8).

But, Peter opened his mouth; and, out came Peter things. Things important to Peter. Unthinking things, the wisdom of man, which is foolishness. Peter couldn’t help it that out of the abundance of the heart his mouth spoke. It wasn’t that there was a disconnect between his brain and his mouth; the problem was Peter’s brain. He needed a new brain; and so do I.

Peter needed a brain that could trust God; a brain rewired by grace. He needed lots of transforming, which would call for lots of grace and patience. But it would also necessitate lots of training; and that is what the Father did for this undisciplined grandson of His. “While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye Him.” (Matt. 17:5).

And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.” (Matt. 17:6. “Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.” (Job 28:28). Peter needed to be humbled.

Peter needed to be put in his place. We see a person putting another in his place, and it often ends in permanent ill-will between the parties involved. Humbling needs to happen; but too often the one doing the humbling is not humble. So the proud troublemaker refuses the abusive lesson. Too often we are like Israelites just recently freed from Egypt and at each others’ throat. Not that we literally choke and fist fight one another. No; we are too sophisticated for that. But the picture we glean from Ex. 21:18 and Deut. 25:11 says something to us about us today. Those free slaves were a pretty wild bunch. Centuries of subjugation, suffering, and pent up anger had turned the justified and sanctified brethren of Joseph into an unruly crowd of miscreants.

Even if we don’t go as far as the freed children of Israel and act out our aggressions, in God’s eyes our hearts are no different than  the unruly slaves that were taken out of Egypt and still needed Egypt to be taken out of them. It would require decades of humiliating discipline. But, eventually each Israelite who would submit to the Lord’s humbling, and who would surrender to His wisdom and love, would enter the promised land. “The meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.” (Ps. 37:11).

“And as He prayed, the fashion of His countenance was altered, and His raiment was white and glistering.” (Luke 9:29).

The patience of Jesus for Peter was unfaltering. Here He was, receiving His only chance for relief from His body with a fallen nature that continually harassed His divine nature, and living on a planet that each waking moment sought to intrude into His private communion with His Father. Christ glowed in heavenly power, the glory with which His Father had filled Him on His throne. He had been burdened down by the possibly permanent loss of His union with His eternally beloved Father at Calvary; He was harassed by Satan’s soon-coming last and best chance at Golgotha to tempt Him into responding in like wrath to the evil hatred always brooding in his own hell-filled heart, and by the horrors of physical torture and death and spiritual agony of His Father’s eternal rejection, all for a race that didn’t know the depths of its own sinfulness and unworthiness. Yet, all this He was determined to accomplish, for the love He had for Adam’s race.

His victory over the devil hinged on a spotless sacrifice. But no one on the doomed planet comprehended the reality of this, not even among His closest followers. Their faith was so shallow. It seemed there was not enough time to prepare them for the monumental test of their faith in Him speeding toward them. All this continually weighed on Jesus, together with the distress of the everyday sapping of His body’s vitality for healing virtue, teaching, and counseling.

Finally, He was freed to forget the agony He had been carrying, as His body was transformed into the heavenly being He once had. He could breathe deeply again the rarified air of heaven. “He was transfigured” (Mark 9:2) into “the glory of [a] terrestrialbody (1 Cor. 15:40), “a spiritual body.” (vs. 44). He was in the Spirit “together in heavenly places” (Eph 2:6) with His Father, the counsel of peace between Them both, and communing with Moses and Elijah. “And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.” (Luke 9:30,31). This “refreshing…from the presence of the Lord” (Acts 3:19) was good news from a far country, and “cold waters to a thirsty soul.” (Prov. 25:25).

But, soon, oh, too soon, His children woke up, and promptly chased away the wonderful blessing. Typical of Peter, his mind racing with tons of great ideas, his mouth immediately opened and poured forth a torrent of inconsideration. Open eyes, open mouth. But, before God could shut it again, the blessed connection with heaven vanished. And it never came back to Jesus again until after all the coming trouble was thrust upon Him—the sacrifice issues which had cast a long shadow over His joy and for which He had so desperately needed heart to heart converse from His heavenly compatriots.

Peter had essentially offended God’s little One. How does God feel about that? “Whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in Me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!” (Matt. 18:6,7). I look back at my many offenses toward God’s little ones—my own children now fully grown, new people come into the church, people I’ve studied the Bible with, etc. and I see people offended by an unsanctified knäve. I’ve seen their tortured heart try its best to be accepting. I am worse than Peter. But I’m thankful the Lord chose the beloved fisherman to unite with Him in training for the ministry.

“God takes men as they are, with the human elements in their character, and trains them for His service, if they will be disciplined and learn of Him. They are not chosen because they are perfect, but notwithstanding their imperfections, that through the knowledge and practice of the truth, through the grace of Christ, they may become transformed into His image.” Desire of Ages, p. 294.

Peter loved his Master, but he had a mountain of character flaws that would need to be overcome before he could ever be a leader in God’s cause. He would have to see his Master wounded many times by his own sins and mistakes before the recognition of his foolishness would sink in. It would require long lessons of grace and truth for Jesus and patient holding fast to Jesus by Peter.

Peter needed to see his true condition—that as much as he loved his Master, his love was only a shallow love from a fallen nature; it was a love without much faith in God or love for excellence. He had lots of filial love, but only a mustard seed amount of selfless agape love, which is the kind of love that Jesus sought the most. This left Simon always reaching deeper for own self-promoting cleverness and proud self-dependence, skills that have nothing to do with leading people to trust God. Peter wasn’t connected with Christ in the deeper, godly love that settles the soul and makes it usable by the Spirit of God.

Peter tried his best to help build the kingdom of God, but his best wasn’t enough. He wasn’t sanctified and sealed. “Folly is joy to him that is destitute of wisdom: but a man of understanding walketh uprightly.… The heart of the righteous studieth to answer.” (Prov. 15:21,28). “A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word spoken in due season, how good is it!” (Prov. 15:23). “A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.” (Prov. 25:11).

Simon Peter acted and spoke from an unsettled soul. “He wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.” (Mark 9:6). The basic fear that comes from disunion with God by sin kept Peter from collecting his thoughts and speaking aright. This was a constant liability to his Master; but, Jesus loved His misfit disciple, as He loved them all. “Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour was come that He should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world, He loved them unto the end.” (John 13:1).

Even in the midst of the night of His unjust trial, Jesus must witness the confusion played out by Peter, praying and hoping against hope that Peter would not be overwhelmed and lose his small, hard fought faith. One look of disgrace or disappointment from Jesus would have sent His beloved disciple to his gallows; and Jesus—in between punches and spittle—could never let that happen. In a last effort to save His conflicted one, Jesus met His beloved’s look with forgiveness at his denials of God. And Peter at last saw himself painfully opposed to the true strength, the Everest of righteousness, the true goodness and love of the greatest Man that ever lived.

The disparity between his worth and Christ’s sent him into a tailspin that God skillfully guided as Peter fled for a refuge to Gethsemane, where “he came to himself” and found himself (Luke 15:17; Matt. 16:25). He finally came to the end of his rope, to the end of his long string of merits. He had nothing within himself anymore to hope in.

He had no place to hide from a new, living conscience, accusing and blaming him with all the wrath of God. He had no hole into which to stick his head; for God had watched his every self-preserving, loathsome move, word, and thought at the high priest’s palace.


There in the garden Peter faced himself and ratified his first surrender back at the seaside with his new Friend and King. He was forced to look at his sinfulness. Simon stood before the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. And, he ministered to Jesus from afar as he plunged into his Master’s soul affliction, baptized in humiliation.

As he ground his face into the dirt, where Jesus just hours before had collapsed and writhed, holding on to His hope in a God of wrath, Peter now sobbed and begged God to change him. He was doing exactly the same as every great saint of the Old Testament had done. He was finally opening the door to the transforming work to humble him forever. He was doing “the first works.” (Rev. 2:5). He was crucified with his Master; nevertheless he lived on and resolved to fix every character flaw, as long as God should spare him.

In the morning, when “the sun rose upon him” (Gen. 32:31), Peter stumbled out with his new resolve. Crushed into rubble, he was a new creature. He had met God and his life was preserved. Now, Simon had a testimony. “I waited patiently for the LORD; and He inclined unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.” (Ps. 40:1,2). Satan had fled, and had left Peter’s mind subdued and self-controlled. He was now quiet and teachable of the deepest truths. “The anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.” (1Jn. 2:27)

Now, Peter could speak from a mind settled and filled with wisdom. Now, God would speak through him, and Satan’s kingdom would shake with terror.

Friday, April 25, 2014

Various questions on Revelation


Letters
seals
trumpets
plagues
1
Ephesus lost its first love
Repent or lose light
Have Nicolaitans
Jesus astride white horse
Apostolic church victorious
Fire/ hail/ blood
On trees and grass
Vial poured upon earth for those who have Mark of Beast
Grievous sores
2
Smyrna have some members from synagogue of Satan passing as Christians suffer persecution 10 days
Red horse
Peace taken from the earth
Much killing
Mountain on fire cast into sea
Sea became blood/ creatures died and ships were destroyed
Vial upon the sea
Sea turned to blood
Every living soul died in the sea
3
Pergamos sits in Satan’s seat
They have doctrine of Balaam and the Nicolaitans. Some have not denied the faith
Black horse
Church besieged and dying
Weighed in balances
Star fell on river & fountains
Wormwood
Many died from bitter water
Vial on rivers and fountains
They became blood
Angel of waters justifies God
Voice from altar in agreement
4
Thyatira full of empty works
Jezebel rules and seduces His servants into fornication and idolatry but she didn’t repent
Others don’t have Jezebel’s doctrine or fornication and  they are encouraged by Jesus
Pale horse
Church dead
Death living in church
Sun, moon, stars smitten
Partially darkened
Vial on sun, scorches men w/fire
They blasphemed God’s name
And didn’t give Him glory (by worshiping Him instead of idol worship and self-indulgence)
5
Sardis looks alive, but is dead
They are to remember what they received to watch and repent or He will come on them unexpectedly like a thief
A few have not defiled their garments and will walk with Him in white
Souls under altar of sacrifice cry, How long do You not judge our blood
They are given white robes and told to be patient
Counter-Reformation
Bottomless pit, sun and air darkened, smoke and locusts
Torment from having no Seal of God








1st woe is past; 2 more come hereafter
Vial on seat of beast
Kingdom full of darkness
Blasphemed God of heaven because of pains and sores
Repented not of their deeds
6
Philadelphia
I have opened a door no man can shut
You have little strength
You have kept the word I will keep you from hour of temptation that will try the whole world
Great earthquake, stars fall, dark day, blood moon
Jesus coming in power
Locusts transform into worse tormenters with fire, smoke, and brimstone
Can kill those who have no Seal of God
Rest did not repent of their deeds or idolatry and hedonism
Concurrent with the 3rd angel’s message (of fire, smoke, and brimstone, torment for those who get Mark of Beast)
Vial on Euphrates/ waters dried up to prepare way for east kings
3 unclean frog-like spirits out of Dragon, Beast, False prophet working miracles go to kings and whole world to gather them to battle with God
  Interlude
 Behold I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast that no man take thy crown.
Interlude by Chapter 7’s sealing of the 144,000 and great multitude
Interlude by Revelation’s chapter 10:1 through 11:14 “delay no longer” and the announcement of the mystery of God finished at the 7th trumpet
Adventism’s death by the Beast ascending from the bottomless pit, and our resurrection
Earthquake, part of city fell
Latter Rain
2nd woe is past; 3rd woe comes quickly
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watches and keeps his garments lest he go naked and be shamed.
7
Laodicea
Wretched, miserable, poor, blind, naked
Buy of Me gold, white raiment, eye salve
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten
I stand at the door and knock
If anyone hears Me and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him and he with Me
Silence in heaven
Jesus at veil of MHP offering at altar of incense
Jesus casts down censer to earth to begin trumpets and time of the end
Voices, thundering,
lightning, and earthquake
Great voices in heaven saying, Kingdoms of Earth are God’s
Nations are angry
Temple in heaven is opened


















(3rd woe is past)
Vial upon the air
Voice out of temple from throne,
“It is done.” Voices,
thundering, lightning,
 unprecedented mighty
 extensive and earthquake
Great city divides into 3, cities of the nations fell, Babylon the Great comes up for judgment
Islands and mountains fled
Great hail of 75 lb. weight
Men blasphemed God because of hail, plague was exceeding great (still no fear or repentance)


Hi J______,

By not connecting Revelation’s symbology to previous scriptural uses, many major misunderstandings have come about through the ages, i.e. Harold Campings’ giant locust plague beginning May 21, 2011, Catholicism’s misuse of fire and brimstone for perpetuating the pagan myth of an eternally burning hell, and the Evangelicals’ belief that global warming will be the fulfillment of the 4th plague. It seems highly likely that the whole Armageddon scenario of the whole world’s armies literally meeting in the little valley of Megiddo, crossing the literal river Euphrates after it is dried up, etc. is all a concoction of the Jesuits to deceive and lead Protestant denominations off into an unbiblical fairytale, and then let them struggle against the nonsense of it all until they fully accept fantasy as truth or just throw out the whole Bible as ridiculous.

Obviously, the symbolisms that relate to the 7 last plagues come from many places in Revelation, as you see from the above table, not to mention the rest of the Bible. What we do see here is that, although there exist some similarities between the 7 trumpets and the 7 plagues, there is also a hodgepodge of previous mentions of symbols used by the 7 plagues that come from the 7 letters and 7 seals. To minimize the confusion (or maybe causing more), I made another document that runs lines to connect the repeated symbols within the above color-coded table. See if it helps, otherwise disregard it.

To correctly understand the 7 last plagues, then, we need to find where they were borrowed from in the Revelation, and then to apply the meaning understood in those earlier applications, as well as in other texts of the whole Bible.

So, let’s look at the 1st plague. What is the Mark of Beast? From the 5th and 6th trumpets we see that it comes to all who don’t receive the Seal of God (Rev. 9:4). We also see this by comparing the punishment on those who serve false religion with the warning of the 3rd angel’s message. Both speak the same language, i.e. fire, smoke, brimstone, and torment. We also see this described in Deuteronomy.


Rev 9:1  And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2  And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3  And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4  And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5  And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6  And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.…
Rev 9:10  And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.…
Rev 9:17  And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18  By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Rev 14:9  And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Deu 29:20  The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
Deu 29:21  And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:
Deu 29:22  So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the LORD hath laid upon it;
Deu 29:23  And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:

We also get the gist of both Mark and Sealing from the promise and warning of the Latter Rain given by Joel.

Joe 2:23  Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
Joe 2:24  And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
Joe 2:25  And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
Joe 2:26  And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
Joe 2:27  And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
Joe 2:28  And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29  And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joe 2:30  And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
Joe 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 2:32  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

This Peter quoted from Joel’s prophecy at the apostle’s receiving of the Early Rain.

I believe the sores are the spiritual torment that comes from God on everyone who are not sealed in their forehead.

Joh 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1Sa 18:9  And Saul eyed David from that day and forward.
1Sa 18:10  And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand….

There is a lot of gospel/Righteousness by faith/science of salvation/Spirit of Prophecy in the book of Revelation.

But, I think I see your quandary with the 6th plague. Mrs. White makes it clear that it is not until the three-fold union passes the Sunday law that probation closes. Then, can we conclude that the previous 5 plagues happen before probation closes and that only the 7th plague happens after probation closes? Or is there more to the 6th plague that we don’t understand? Or is there more to understand about the mark of the beast in the 1st plague than we know? Is the mark already being given before the three-fold union happens? My study of the trumpets indicates that the seal and the mark have been decided on an individual basis since the Advent movement began, based on Rev. 7:3; 9:4; 14:9-11.

We can get a sense of the 3rd angel’s message here with the fire and burning, indignation and wrath:

Isa 30:27  Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
Isa 30:28  And his breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people, causing them to err.

And what is the result? The strong delusion that they should believe a lie, to conclude the investigative judgment, and that the people that are decidedly deluded from false, proud worship should be destroyed by the sword that proceeds from the Lord’s mouth and the brightness of His coming. They refused the Law of God, which alone could bring to need a Savior from sin; they refused repentance and surrender to the will of God. The Stone fell on them and ground them to powder.

The 2nd plague. A vial poured on the sea; the sea is turned to blood. The sea represents the rebellious, unconverted people of the world. During the 2nd trumpet, only the third part died, and throughout the trumpets, only the worst die because human probation isn’t yet closed. But in the last plagues, now that the mark of the beast is (has been?) received, every living soul died in the sea. Everyone who has no seal of God is in the sea—every soul.

Psa 42:1  As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.
Psa 42:2  My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?
Psa 42:3  My tears have been my meat day and night, while they continually say unto me, Where is thy God?
Psa 42:4  When I remember these things, I pour out my soul in me: for I had gone with the multitude, I went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with a multitude that kept holyday.
Psa 42:5  Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.
Psa 42:6  O my God, my soul is cast down within me: therefore will I remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar.
Psa 42:7  Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts: all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me.

“Thy waves and thy billows are gone over me” speaks to the torment because of neglect to find the Spirit of Jesus every day. When the Millerites lost sight of Jesus on October 23, they felt like David in the above Psalm 42 and like Mary Magdalene weeping in the garden of Gethsemane. But, because the wicked wouldn’t seek Jesus like David and Mary and Ellen Harmon did while probation was open for them, the wicked are fixed in perpetual torment and fear, with all the waves and billows of hopelessness and thirst forever tormenting them.

The 3rd plague. Vial poured on the rivers and fountains.  David wrote,

Psa 87:7  As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.

And Jesus said,

Joh 4:14  The water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Rev 21:6  And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.


Here, however, is not the possession by heavenly agencies, but by demonic.

Let’s first look at the previous use of rivers and fountains in the 3rd trumpet. From what we glean through Deuteronomy 29 and 32, this indicates possession by spiritualism.

Deu 29:18  Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;
Deu 29:19  And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:

Deu 32:16  They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
Deu 32:17  They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
Deu 32:32  For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
Deu 32:33  Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
Deu 32:34  Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures?

This throws light on Revelation 14:18-20 and Isaiah 30:27,28.

Now, that Satan has filled their minds and hearts with his harsh, loveless presence, their consciences, and faith and love, go dead. King Saul illustrated the lost sense in their souls. His judgment was scattered by the billion voices and influences of Beelzebub, lord of the flies. He could mourn over David one day and try to run a javelin through him the next.

Amo 8:8  Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.
Amo 8:9  And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:
Amo 8:10  And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.
Amo 8:11  Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amo 8:12  And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
Amo 8:13  In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
Amo 8:14  They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god [Baal], O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.

This is why Mrs. White was so fearful and emphatic concerning the very end. When God lets go, the lost wander off forever into the mists and blackness of darkness (2Pet. 2:17; Jude 13).

So far, you’ll notice that nothing I see in the plagues is literal, as it reads in Revelation. I have found it to be too connected with the symbology of the Old Testament to be willing to interpret the last plagues literally. I will say, though, that the spiritual torment that chastises our peace (Isa. 53:5) causes all kinds of literal disease. The secular atheist can run/walk/swim, eat the perfect diet, and be ethical, jovial people, but the low level torment from disconnection with God causes agitation and then caustic toxins to come out of the woodwork inside their bodies which eventually will kill them, literally. The moralist and ethicist will die in their sins. And that also includes church members who don’t care to strive or who don’t have the time to know Jesus. Again, there is much RBF and SOP in the symbolisms of Revelation. It’s not all imagery or, as many think, imaginary fiction. But, it is spiritual things that need to be spiritually discerned and heeded; or the consequences will be terrible, really terrible.

Christ knew the horrible consequences of spiritual blackness forever. He tasted eternal death for everyone. It was a horror of great darkness. He wants to deliver us from that, but we must get with Him if He is to give us the way of escaping that horror. This is the great gospel appeal in Revelation.

For everyone who lives in anxiety knows the torment of the resistant conscience from the 5th trumpet that has created a society dependent on some form of anti-depressant, legal or illegal—“drunkenness”; and they know the perplexity and hearts failing them for fear, which comes from the conscience hardening until shutting down in the 6th trumpet. I believe that before the 7th trumpet every case will be decided and probation closes. But, that means that probation was closed before the 6th plague’s three-fold union.

The 4th plague. Vial poured on sun, which scorches men with fire. This harks back to the 1st trumpet when the Millerites first received the gift of prophecy through Ellen Harmon. Through her, they all received the coals from off the altar, and they were filled with the light of Christ. But, the denominations who rejected biblical truth coming from the Lord’s qualified representatives, were burnt up (the “third part”).

Rev 8:7  The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

2Co 4:6  For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

1Jn 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The 4th plague’s fire and great heat also harks back to the work by the church of the wilderness during the Dark Ages.

Rev 11:5  And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will….
Rev 11:10 … these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Rev 2:26  And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 2:28  And I will give him the morning star.

Could it be that the 4th plague is the truth of God shining brightly to the world and aggravating their already determined resistance to truth? How so? Could it be through the sealed servants of God victorious in persecution, or by the Ten Commandments written in the sky? This final act of truth resisted leaves the unconverted world in darkness.

The 5th plague. The seat of the beast and his kingdom are full of darkness. Again, this comes from the 5th trumpet which involved such darkness as to darken the sun and led to the tormenting of everyone without the seal of God in their forehead. But, that didn’t affect everyone; and even the 6th trumpet didn’t symbolically kill everyone (Rev. 9:18). Now in the 5th plague, Babylon is completely dark. No light of truth prevails to enter the world at this time.

Isa 8:22  And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.

Isa 30:27  Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
Isa 30:28  And his breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people, causing them to err.

But, the righteous will have light in all of their dwellings as Israel did in Goshen during Egyptian plagues (Ex. 10:23).

Isa 30:29  Ye shall have a song, as in the night when a holy solemnity is kept; and gladness of heart, as when one goeth with a pipe to come into the mountain of the LORD, to the mighty One of Israel.

They have come out of Babylon, and “receive not of her plagues.” (Rev. 18:4). The rest have a darkness of the soul that is painful. Their hearts and souls are absolutely empty, there is no joy.

Isa 1:4  Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Isa 1:5  Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
Isa 1:6  From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

Joe 1:5  Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth. …
Joe 1:9  The meat offering and the drink offering is cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests, the LORD'S ministers, mourn.
Joe 1:10  The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.
Joe 1:11  Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.
Joe 1:12  The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.

“Because joy is withered away from the sons of men.” This perfectly describes the nervous laughter that will be in those days. Worse, they are incapable of surrendering because they seared their conscience and Satan now has full control of them and won’t let them be converted. So, they repented not of their deeds. As the saints are fixed in the sealing, so that they cannot be moved, so the wicked are fixed in the mark of Satan’s spirit on their character.

Luk 16:26  And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

The 6th plague. Vial poured on the Euphrates, which is dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the east. We know from Rev. 17:15 that the river that Babylon sat on was “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.” This is the same that Nebuchadnezzar said when sending out a telegram to his whole empire, “Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth….” (Dan. 4:1).

The drying up of spiritual Babylon, “all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth,” indicates a further disconnection of the conscience of the human race which rejected the amazingly beautiful appeals and sacrificing of soul during the Latter Rain. Now, amorality has taken the place of immorality the painful perplexing is no longer disconcerting. They are completely given over to demonic possession. They have forgotten the angst that plagued them during the Latter Rain. A boldness to destroy God’s sealed children dares God to destroy them, and proves that He should do just that.

Deu 32:41  If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
Deu 32:42  I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
Deu 32:43  Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.

Earlier, the mark in the forehead permanently joined the religious half of Protestantism to New Age spiritualism through Spiritual Formation and celebration. But, later, all who resented religion and also rejected the Latter Rain of the gospel, were unable to stand up against the threatenings of apostate Protestantism, which is now speaking like the dragon. Not having the guidance of the Spirit of God, the miracles convince all of these spiritual zombies of the validity of Satan as he imitates Christ’s second coming and sets up his New Age of Aquarius. He works many signs and wonders

Rev 13:13  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 Mat 24:23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Lucifer, beaming in self-manufactured glory, speaks wonderful proverbs and parables, and no one can deny his supernatural power. All believe that this is the very Messiah from heaven. They cannot escape the hold of his delusion.

2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed,…
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

7th plague. Vial poured on the air. Babylon falls before the descent of Jesus on His white horse, “for her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.” (Rev 18:5). Along with Him the stars fall from heaven as angelic hosts swoop down to pick up those who endured to the end, and as 75 lb. falls of fire pummel this world, especially the cities.



As for your other question about when Satan was cast out of heaven: Remember that Mrs. White not only wrote that Rev. 12:9 referred to the beginning of the controversy, but she also wrote that a few verses later, i.e. after the war in heaven, that Satan was cast down to the earth in verse 12 and that this time frame referred to the end of time, since he had only a short time to deceive the world. Taken together as one event, the same scenario encompasses 6,000 years. But, we know that is not true.

The day we spoke on the phone I couldn’t put my mind on the texts that show more than one war in heaven, but now I see that taken together with John 12:31 there are 3 wars and 3 casting out events, each associated with the 3 parts of the sanctuary. Does this make correct theology? I believe so, especially when you read the war in heaven contextually. When you do that Rev. 12:9 has to refer to a war that takes place upon Christ’s ascension and prior to the church fleeing into the wilderness in the early Dark Ages. The other two wars are theological extensions of the one most contextually correct, that is the one upon His ascension.

Each casting out would force Satan further and further away from heaven and more and more confined to Earth, which allows Satan to show up in heaven in Job’s day and in Micaiah’s day (2Ki. 22:16-23). There he said that the Lord was, “sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on His left.” Christ’s throne has ever been in some proximity to God and this does sound like heaven as we understand the sanctuary of God. It also shows that Satan could enter the presence of the angelic hosts, but no doubt he couldn’t tempt them or harass them. And, it also shows that Christ’s throne must have been in the court of the heavenly temple, which would match the idea of three wars associated with three movements of Christ closer and closer to His Father—three atonements that eventually completely close the gap separating the Son from the Father, a separation caused by Christ’s associating with Earth’s criminals of the kingdom and His mediation for the salvation of humanity.

Each casting out would happen as Christ would more and more reveal the justice and mercy of God in all of His actions, especially His strange work of disowning Lucifer. This could mean that the war was based on revelation of God’s character as seen in Christ for the increasing benefit of the angels who never fell. Each war would begin at the three great dispensations: 1) the fall and promise of redemption through sacrifice given to Adam that continued down through the Old Testament period of Noah, Moses, and the prophets, as Christ officiated in the court of God’s throne; 2) Israel’s rejection of the Messiah, the crucifixion of Christ, and Christ’s entrance through the veil of the whole heavenly sanctuary; 3) the church’s rejection of the Bible and the establishment of the last movement to prepare for Judgment day, as Christ began to officiate in the Most Holy Place within the second veil.

So, I don’t mean to upset you by agreeing with Pastor M_______, even though I really don’t know exactly what he said and might disagree also. But, you were right in saying that you must be convicted of truth by the Holy Spirit. We can never stop thinking for ourselves, no matter who told us what the Bible says. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. That was Mrs. White’s constant stance.

Our minds have become so narrow that we do not seem to understand that the Lord has a mighty work to do for us. Increasing light is to shine upon us; for “the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day” Review and Herald, June 18, 1889, par. 4).

We are to counsel together, and to be subject to one another; but at the same time we are to exercise the ability God has given us to learn what is truth. Each one of us must look to God for divine enlightenment. We must individually develop a character that will stand the test in the day of God. We must not become set in our ideas, and think that no one should interfere with our opinions Review and Herald, June 18, 1889, para. 6.

The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God’s people, should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves, to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition, and worship they know not what Counsels to Writers and Editors, p. 39.